This sounds great.The problem is the centrist politicians who win are like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton they're still better,but they're neoliberals.They think the market is the best when it's the one causing the problems.I agree with you the market is great at some things like tech/innovation, but really bad at others like healthcare.TOP says they're centrists and their policies are good especially around doing a land value tax on houses, and not doing a wealth tax because we're too small.They know that housing is expensive because there's no tax on it and it's a way to invest.
Kia ora Vikash, thanks for reading and engaging with the article. It’s interesting that you frame Clinton and Blair as neoliberals and centrists. While Clinton is often seen as a moderate Democrat, he still leaned Left on many social policies. Tony Blair, through his "Third Way" politics, aimed to blend market liberalism with traditional Labour values, which some see as centrist, but others interpret as a soft form of neoliberalism.
Neoliberalism, however, was the dominant economic framework of the 80s and 90s, shaping much of the political landscape in Western countries. It’s easy to critique it in hindsight, but resisting that tide would have been nearly impossible for any politician, regardless of their political ideologies, given the global pressures at the time. I’m not sure either Clinton or Blair would characterize themselves as neoliberals, though their policies reflected some of those principles, especially in economic deregulation, which did for most countries with a liberal democracy.
That said, I think it’s important to recognize the nuanced conversation around social capitalism and how centrist approaches can still seek to regulate the market where necessary—especially around housing. While neoliberalism had its flaws, acknowledging its benefits and limitations can help us move the conversation forward more constructively.
Have you heard that vaccination views follow the political divide between left and right, and maybe all the NZers who disagreed with the Covid vaccine mandates teamed up to vote out the authoritarian Labour govt. I have noticed that people who would label me right wing are likely to be provaxers, and are more likely to be gullible and willing to believe any narrative from the State. They are also left-wingers who expect more state intervention, equals Socialism. What have you noticed ?
Centrism sounds similar to the Middle Way of Buddhism, but I am reading a lot of polarized views now, that seem to be supported by ideology rather than critical thinking assessment.
Thanks for your comment! You bring up an interesting point about how views on vaccination seemed to fall along political lines. I definitely saw a lot of polarization around vaccine mandates here in New Zealand, and I think part of it ties into how people perceive government authority in general. For some, mandates felt like overreach; for others, they were a necessary public health measure.
It’s interesting that you associate those labeled "right-wing" with being anti-mandate and "left-wing" with supporting them. I don't think that's true or that clear-cut. There are people who usually lean left but opposed mandates, and vice versa. For me, it’s less about who’s “gullible” or not and more about how much trust people place in institutions like the government. And in hindsight I think that how the government managed that should be scrutinized, because the gov flexing its muscle like that for other reasons that might not be during a global pandemic can be very problematic.
I think we’re often too quick to categorize each other based on a single issue, and that makes it harder to have nuanced conversations. That’s one reason I think centrism is so important—it creates space to engage with multiple perspectives without getting stuck in ideological labels.
I just scrolled down and saw you ran for TOP last year, thanks for giving it a shot.
I agree neoliberalism would've been hard to avoid.Our politics is divided, I've been following American politics for three years and it's crazy seeing some things being copied by both sides, on all sorts of issues. I'm not saying be like Germany, but too many issues are left or right coded here. Our polticis will get even more divided if we don't do something. I've always seen us as being more common sense and we still our, but the last few years have put some holes in that. Power is a great example, Labor says no to fossil fuels, the coalition wants us importing LNG. The truth is without big batteries,lots of solar, or nuclear we need fossil fuels. We can't do de growth like we've done for a long time and have even more industry and factories close and move overseas.I'm a labor member and the oil and gas ban was stupid we could've been like Norway and Qatar, but we went with de growth. Since 2021 we've had warnings of mass blackouts, this didn't happen before.
This sounds great.The problem is the centrist politicians who win are like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton they're still better,but they're neoliberals.They think the market is the best when it's the one causing the problems.I agree with you the market is great at some things like tech/innovation, but really bad at others like healthcare.TOP says they're centrists and their policies are good especially around doing a land value tax on houses, and not doing a wealth tax because we're too small.They know that housing is expensive because there's no tax on it and it's a way to invest.
Kia ora Vikash, thanks for reading and engaging with the article. It’s interesting that you frame Clinton and Blair as neoliberals and centrists. While Clinton is often seen as a moderate Democrat, he still leaned Left on many social policies. Tony Blair, through his "Third Way" politics, aimed to blend market liberalism with traditional Labour values, which some see as centrist, but others interpret as a soft form of neoliberalism.
Neoliberalism, however, was the dominant economic framework of the 80s and 90s, shaping much of the political landscape in Western countries. It’s easy to critique it in hindsight, but resisting that tide would have been nearly impossible for any politician, regardless of their political ideologies, given the global pressures at the time. I’m not sure either Clinton or Blair would characterize themselves as neoliberals, though their policies reflected some of those principles, especially in economic deregulation, which did for most countries with a liberal democracy.
That said, I think it’s important to recognize the nuanced conversation around social capitalism and how centrist approaches can still seek to regulate the market where necessary—especially around housing. While neoliberalism had its flaws, acknowledging its benefits and limitations can help us move the conversation forward more constructively.
Have you heard that vaccination views follow the political divide between left and right, and maybe all the NZers who disagreed with the Covid vaccine mandates teamed up to vote out the authoritarian Labour govt. I have noticed that people who would label me right wing are likely to be provaxers, and are more likely to be gullible and willing to believe any narrative from the State. They are also left-wingers who expect more state intervention, equals Socialism. What have you noticed ?
Centrism sounds similar to the Middle Way of Buddhism, but I am reading a lot of polarized views now, that seem to be supported by ideology rather than critical thinking assessment.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comment! You bring up an interesting point about how views on vaccination seemed to fall along political lines. I definitely saw a lot of polarization around vaccine mandates here in New Zealand, and I think part of it ties into how people perceive government authority in general. For some, mandates felt like overreach; for others, they were a necessary public health measure.
It’s interesting that you associate those labeled "right-wing" with being anti-mandate and "left-wing" with supporting them. I don't think that's true or that clear-cut. There are people who usually lean left but opposed mandates, and vice versa. For me, it’s less about who’s “gullible” or not and more about how much trust people place in institutions like the government. And in hindsight I think that how the government managed that should be scrutinized, because the gov flexing its muscle like that for other reasons that might not be during a global pandemic can be very problematic.
I think we’re often too quick to categorize each other based on a single issue, and that makes it harder to have nuanced conversations. That’s one reason I think centrism is so important—it creates space to engage with multiple perspectives without getting stuck in ideological labels.
Nat
Hey Natalia thanks for the reply.
I just scrolled down and saw you ran for TOP last year, thanks for giving it a shot.
I agree neoliberalism would've been hard to avoid.Our politics is divided, I've been following American politics for three years and it's crazy seeing some things being copied by both sides, on all sorts of issues. I'm not saying be like Germany, but too many issues are left or right coded here. Our polticis will get even more divided if we don't do something. I've always seen us as being more common sense and we still our, but the last few years have put some holes in that. Power is a great example, Labor says no to fossil fuels, the coalition wants us importing LNG. The truth is without big batteries,lots of solar, or nuclear we need fossil fuels. We can't do de growth like we've done for a long time and have even more industry and factories close and move overseas.I'm a labor member and the oil and gas ban was stupid we could've been like Norway and Qatar, but we went with de growth. Since 2021 we've had warnings of mass blackouts, this didn't happen before.